RAID INFORMATION

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:11 pm

On another website that I frequent every day, I had a guy approch me with a question, and I am going to post the conversation here, so if anyone is interested, they might brush up on the subject.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:12 pm

STEED

SATA Operation setting

What is the different between RAID Autodetect/ANCL and RAID Autodetect/ATA

I'm no expert so I would be grateful to know what this would do if I changed the first one to the second one, and there meaning as well.

Thanks

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:13 pm

Without checking my A+ Manuel:

When using 2 or more harddrives in close conjunction is a RAID.

For Example:

RAID 0: Stripe: 2 Hard Drives - 1 piece of data, 1 half is written to each drive so each drive only spins half as much to read data. Both drives read half and report it back to whatever hardware/software requested information. Supposivdly twice as fast as a regular HD.

Raid 1: Mirror: Same data written to two HDs. If one of your HDs has a hardware malfunction, you have all your data exactly stored on the other drive for data redundency.

RAID 3/5: Mirror/Stripe/Parsec: RAID 3 and RAID 5 are basicly the same thing. Both RAID 0 - 1 combined. BUT - in a RAID 3, 1 peice of data is broken up into 2 pieces, 2 of the HDs get 1 piece, and the 3rd drive gets a Parsec Bit. The Pasec bit is written on a different drive for each byte of data. So it stripes the data across three drives and sets the parsec bit in the empty space. The parsec bit is there for rebuilding one of the HDs if it fails. You have three, 1 has a mechanical problem, you pull it out and replace it, the other two HDs place all nessasary data onto the new drive for you. "Data Redundency"

RAID 5 works in the same way but with 5 HDs for added protection.

Any other RAID numbers above that use tape drives and such and were not on Microsofts exams. To use a RAID your motherboard must support it and your HDs must be exactly the same size/type/speed/brand.

If you don't use a raid just ignore it, it will only check at POST. (Power on self test) and it won't slow you down any inside windows. It doesnt hurt to disable it though, doesnt help either...

If you are running a RAID, and its working, I wouldnt mess with it because the detection is working already, and no need to fix something that isnt broke.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:13 pm

STEED

It's a minor problem bought about when I changed the internal battery and this is the second time in a row this has happen this year.

the start up the bar gets almost to the end then I get this on my screen.

Floppy disk seek failed
Drive 1 not found serial ATA Sata-1
Drive 2 not found serial ATA Sata-2
Drive 3 not found serial ATA Sata-3

There is no floppy drive on the PC but I have got two external floppies, all is working well so should I just ignore this until such time I need a repair?

The reason I asked as I put this question on a Tech Forum and I got the answer back with a full guide line how to change the settings as mention in my first post, the first time this happen I was advised by the shops engineer from where I bought my PC from just to ignore it.
__________________

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:14 pm

SPRUENCE

Which load bar are you reffering too? Windows?

As a technition, the first thing I would do is check to see if your BOIS has the onboard floppy controller disabled. Maybe somehow it got turned on when you reset your battery. When the battery dies all your BOIS information is lost, as far as non-default settings. ***Is this the 2nd time this year you have changed your BIOS battery?

The other three messages are about your SATA drives. Are you using Serial ATA drives at all? Or are you using EIDE or IDE drives? If you are not using SATA you could turn that off in the BIOS as well and that would stop the computer from seeking them at startup.

If you are using SATA Hard Drives, and your machine is still working, and you can access all your data from windows with no problem, then I would ignore it, but I would also put aside 10 bucks out of every paycheck in expectation that my motherboard was going to fail.

As I mentioned above, the first three SATA Seeks and the Floppy Seek are proboly default settings in your BOIS, and whomever built the machine, if it wasnt you, proboly disabled those settings before they sold it too you, so you wouldnt see that message. Most likly, since you dont have a floppy, and *IF* you are not using SATA drives, BIOS needs to be told to stop looking for them.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:15 pm

STEED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spruence M
Which load bar are you reffering too? Windows?

Yes, Windows XP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spruence M
Is this the 2nd time this year you have changed your BIOS battery?

Yes indeed, the first time was fixed only because I had another problem a week or so later which was not in any way connected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spruence M
The other three messages are about your SATA drives. Are you using Serial ATA drives at all? Or are you using EIDE or IDE drives? If you are not using SATA you could turn that off in the BIOS as well and that would stop the computer from seeking them at startup.

How do I check for this information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spruence M
If you are using SATA Hard Drives, and your machine is still working, and you can access all your data from windows with no problem, then I would ignore it, but I would also put aside 10 bucks out of every paycheck in expectation that my motherboard was going to fail.

In the case of the Mother Board that went some months ago so I have a new one now, by the way the PC is a Dell 8400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spruence M
As I mentioned above, the first three SATA Seeks and the Floppy Seek are proboly default settings in your BOIS, and whomever built the machine, if it wasnt you, proboly disabled those settings before they sold it too you, so you wouldnt see that message. Most likly, since you dont have a floppy, and *IF* you are not using SATA drives, BIOS needs to be told to stop looking for them.

From the tech site I was given this info a follows -

Configure the "SATA Operation" Settings in the Computer BIOS

By default, the SATA Operation setting in the computer BIOS is set to RAID

Autodetect/AHCL To change this setting to RAID Autodetect/ATA, follow these steps

Press the F2 set up when your seek failed screen comes up

In the Setup screen, press the down arrow key to select Drives, and then the <Enter>

key to expand the Drives node

Press the down arrow key to select SATA Operations, and then press <Enter> key to select this option

Press the right arrow key to select RAID Auto/ATA, and then press the <Enter> key

Press the <Esc> key to exit the set up program

Press the right arrow key to select Exit, and then press the <Enter> key. The computer restarts

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:17 pm

Checking your Hard Drive Type:

The following is a picture of a SATA or ATA cable. Take notice to the type of plug it has on the end.

The following is what an EIDE or IDE cable looks like, although different, to an untrained eye they are identical.

Let me know which type you have please. That will answer the question of wiether or not you need to disable the SATA search at startup.

Edit: IDE and EIDE look identical. Just to make that clear

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:22 pm

STEED

If these plug in at the back I can say I have never used or own one as in the second picture, as for the first one it looks like a no as well. Hang on let me re-phase that I do have cables Simula to the first one and the big connection is Simula but the small one hmmmm.

Just checked the paper work when I bought it and it states ATA Hard Drive, true to say since then I have a new one. So would there be no change and remain a ATA?

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:24 pm

Most likely, Yes, you would have an ATA. If it looks simular to the first pic, I could'nt find an exact in the 20 seconds I alotted myself. (Actually, I am not sure about the 1 small connector, never seen 1 like that) anyway, this is what I would do if it were my machine:

First: Would find out which ATA Slot my hard drive is plugged into.

They will look simular to this and may have numbers next to them denoting which is which. Also your motherboard manuel should tell you.

My suspicion: You have a total of 4 of the above male plugs on your motherboard, and it is capable of using all 4 at one time, (had you ever the need to adding more.) and your error message is telling you that 1-3 are missing because they are not there, and still turned on in your BOIS, and same story for your Floppy Drive.

As far as what the Dell Technition has recommended, (Now that I understand it, or at least believe that I do) I would follow that advice first, turning it from Raid/ANCL to Auto/ATA may stop the message from coming up, if the techy did'nt give you a mothball solution.

I however do not believe that it will fix the message about your floppy drive however.

*****On a further note*****

The RAID/ANCL may be the name of the "Raid Controller" that your motherboard has. I think all motherboard manufacturers give their RAID special names to denote different styles of data transfer, so on, so forth. Your not even using a RAID, so the Auto/ATA would be the right setting.

***Floppy Drive***

As I stated, I don't believe changing the above setting is going to make this message go away. You will have to find in your BOIS, (Proboly in the same area as the RAID) where to turn off your onboard floppy controller.

((Are your two external floppy drives USB? IF so: Have you tried booting with them unplugged?))
__________________

If you change from the RAID/ANCL to the RAID/ATA and the error still arises, then report back here, and I will try to find a screenshot of what it looks like in my BIOS to show you what the manual overide would look like.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:26 pm

STEED

OK, checked inside I got three cables as in the second picture two big and the other one a little smaller, there is another cable and going by my manual the picture looks the same as inside the PC. The manual states this is a Serial ATA Connector.

Will this change cause a problem as I have forked out on a very large bill some months ago and I don't want to fork out again.

By the way were those instructions I were given look OK?

I was thinking about going mad.

From Belarc Advisor nice little thing shows up all the info.

Drives

159.99 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
114.38 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

PLEXTOR DVDR PX-504A [CD-ROM drive]
SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-148A
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]
TEAC FD-05PUB USB Device [Floppy drive] <<<<These must be my external floppy drives
TEAC FD-05PUW USB Device [Floppy drive]

MAXTOR STM3160211AS [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 0

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:27 pm

ZANTHOM WROTE:

Ok, an IDE cable, such as runs to a hard drive or optical drive, measures about 2" wide. If you were to count the little holes in the connector for this cable it would have 2 rows of 20 pins (40 total). Sometimes one or more of the pins is blocked off.

A floppy cable looks very similar to an IDE cable, but measures 1 3/4" wide. This cable has 2 rows of 17 pins (34 total). Sometimes one or more of the pins is blocked off.

A serial ATA cable is maybe as wide as your little finger (about 1cm wide).

The color of the cables is unimportant, but generally IDE and floppy cables are grey-white, occasionally black, and SATA cables are generally red, but blue or black is common too.

Most Dells's bought in the last..year maybe? no longer have floppy drives internally. Does yours? I ask because it sounds like you have a floppy drive cable, in which case you don't need to disable your onboard floppy drive controller, but rather set it to the correct drive. (3.5" Floppy, 1.44MB). Check that the floppy cable is plugged into the drive (hopefully the right orientation), and that the drive also has power going to it (separate cable, these are 4-wire cable, red black black yellow and you will have wires like this running all over inside your computer).

It also sounds like you have at least two IDE devices in your computer. These can be hard drives and optical drives. Most computers usually only ever have one hard drive, and one optical drive, but 2 optical drives is somewhat common as well.. generally the two optical drives are plugged into the same cable, one in the middle, one on the end. (FYI - by optical drive I mean CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs, etc. including burners). Since you brought up RAID, your computer can have more than one hard drive (generally two in this case).

If you can let us know what drives you have and how many of each...(isn't this fun?? )

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:28 pm

SPRUENCE WROTE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED
I was thinking about going mad.

Do not go mad, it is what Gates wants, then you will end up paying someone else to do the work for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED
Drives

159.99 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
114.38 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

MAXTOR STM3160211AS [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 0

I think we have established your HD is a SATA. You got your answer right here. Normally when you count, you would count, 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. Looks like Dell is counting 0 - 1 - 2 - 3. I am convinced that my theroy is right at this point. I would follow the Techy guy's advice and change that setting, it may just fix the problem. 1, 2, 3 need turned off or bypassed and that might do the trick.

Fear Not! If he gave you faulty directions for your motherboard, and what you do does nothing, helps none, and doesnt fix the problem, just reboot, go back into your setup by hitting F2, and change it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED
PLEXTOR DVDR PX-504A [CD-ROM drive]
SAMSUNG CD-ROM SC-148A

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEED
floppy drives
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

The above is quite perplexing. You said you do not have an internal floppy drive. Unless you ment that it doesnt work, and its still there, or forgot to mention it being in the front of your computer, this doesnt make much sence.

Other than, what I thought before, the floppy controller was turned off, and went back on by default when your battery died.

It is very hard to hurt your BIOS by changing a setting, you can almost always get back in and reset it to defualt values.

Give it a try and see if that finishes this problem.

Edit: If what the tech told you works, the Drive not found messages should go away, at least for the SATA Devices. Get back to me/us when it does, and We/I will work on your floppy drive with ya.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:28 pm

STEED

FAILED

Same message came up followed by a Blue screen warning, restarted and I changed it back and this was followed by a black screen warning about system interrupt restart last best restart or safe mode. Any way I'm back but I am worried the PC will not start the next time I turn on.

If it works OK I will just have to live with this problem, thanks for all your advice and help folks.

I just hope I don't see those screens again.

PS: If I don't drop in on Monday or Tuesday or know its in for repair.

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:28 pm

SPRUENCE

am sorry to hear that Steed. If you do not want to spend money at the repair shop, you could try Dell again. If you do get this message, would it be possible for you to tell me what type of BIOS you have? It would be top center screen in the setup menu.

Something like:

Award

American Megatrends

PHOENIX BIOS’

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:29 pm

I'll write back with any more info on the subject.